Retiring at 50 Was a Mistake: Jeff Roedersheimer on Purpose

Jeff RoedersheimerI was retired and not super happy. Even though that was the goal, I think that's lots of people's goal, is to retire. I retired at 50 and after a couple years realized something was missing. And the something was missing was part of what I retired from. I kinda lied to myself that there was something out there where you could completely divorce stress, fear, anxiety, those types of emotions from the fulfillment, the purpose, the joy. Do you feel like AI is helping or hurting society right now? I'm gonna say both. It's kinda like social media. These days, I feel like social media is mostly hurting. While my son followed in my footsteps, he started programming younger than me. He knows multiple languages. He really loves it. And he wanted to go into computer science. And I said, I don't know if you should do that because of generative and agentic AI and what it's doing to computer science, really software engineering.

Ben BeeriWhat's up, everyone? Welcome to the Authentic Journey. Today, I'm excited to introduce our guest, Jeff Rautersheimer. And Jeff is an IT consultant who helps senior executives take on the next big thing that they have going on. And Jeff is a student of life, he's learned so many things, and I'm really grateful to have him on today to share some of those things with you.

Jeff RoedersheimerYou, Jeff. Absolutely. Happy to be here. Hell yeah.

Ben BeeriWhat's on your mind?

Jeff RoedersheimerHow I got here. And I guess talking about, you know, I'm... I was retired briefly, and still, I like to call it semi retired. So even though I help senior executives with large technology transformations, mostly around AI today, I'm only doing it part time. And I did that on purpose because I was retired and not super happy being retired even though that was the goal. I think that's lots of people's goal is to retire. I retired at 50 and after a couple years realized something was missing. And the something was missing was part of what I retired from.

Ben BeeriYeah, no, so that was that was an interesting concept of just with stuff that I thought about with Adam sitting there walking, I'm like, there's really nothing preventing me from doing this on a daily basis except for me getting into the state that I want to get into Yeah. To do this. And it's like so many times we place these limitations on ourselves for like wanting to do something that like it's allowance rather than earning.

Jeff RoedersheimerYeah. I also think people put... They tell themselves stories that if if they are... Can do this or do these certain things, that that will bring them happiness. So they're always chasing something that they think if they get that, that's what's gonna bring happiness. And it's actually, you know, as we know, it's the journey, not the destination. And as you already said, the best things in life are usually free. Yeah. So it's it's it's reflecting and embracing things around you that are right there versus sort of always chasing something. Although, I will say it is exciting to chase something. Mean, that's that's part of the journey.

Ben BeeriSo... And chasing stuff is fun, and it's like we have these different checkpoints along the way, right? And we tell ourselves at times, it's like, hey, when I reach this checkpoint, I'll be able to feel this way or act this way. Right. And then the question becomes is what's the next checkpoint?

Jeff RoedersheimerYeah. Yeah. Well, when I retired, I reflected back on my life and, like, when I was the most fulfilled, when I was the happiest, when I had the most joy, and it was really not correlated at all with financial success. It was somewhat correlated with accomplishing things and building things and succeeding with a team, but not necessarily financially. And that's where you sort of... You get to the point where you realize, hold on a sec. I need to I need to reframe things and look at things differently, not just the way that you've been told and sort of bought into as you're sort of running toward those destinations. As you said, you're told, if I make to this point or this checkpoint, that's gonna be the thing.

And versus as you're going towards that checkpoint, looking around and really thinking about what's bringing you joy and fulfillment, and then realizing it's not the checkpoint, it's the journey too.

Ben BeeriYep. And then what for you what for you was that that brought you

Jeff Roedersheimerthe most joy and the most fulfillment that you found? Well, I definitely... I would be reflecting back. Right? So I always thought that once I got to a point where I had enough financially and had enough saved that I no longer had to work, I would retire and... Well, that's the goal. Right? You know? I... I've told people I retired at 50, and they're, congratulations. And I'm like, well, yes and no. I mean, the congratulations is I can do what I wanna do when I wanna do it. The negative is I didn't realize that all the way up until I retired, all the things that I thought were just stress and annoyance and difficult and things I wanted to get away from, there were aspects of that underneath the pain and underneath the stress that actually gave me a sense of purpose or who I am, and there was a lot of joy and fulfillment packed in there. So long ago, probably the late nineties, I was consulting, large consulting firm, big systems integration company, and I was assigned to a project in Chicago for the German... Or for the Chicago Stock Exchange, Board of Trade, and they were

doing an alliance with the Deutsche Borse in Frankfurt. You said you're heading there. I think you said you're... No. You're just heading to The US US trips. But, anyway, Chicago, you are heading to, and you probably will see the CBOT. It's no longer there, Chicago Board of Trade. And they had the pit trading made famous by fuel... Ferris Bueller. If you remember that movie, he goes into the the pits and looks at them trading. But I was on a project to help integrate the German Deutsche Borse exchange, Deutsche Borse, Eurix exchange that was all electronic with the manual open outcry pit trading, and flew over.

I really had no idea what I was doing. I understood the technology, but I didn't understand trading at all. It was literally I was being dumped into the deep end of a pool, and it was extremely stressful to figure out how to route trades from the electronic exchange back to Chicago board trade if they wanted to do open outcry trading. And I had some late nights, very stressful moments. The URX URX exchange trades in decimals. The CBOT at the time traded in fractions, so you have to go back and forth. So if you're trading in thirds, do the decimal.

That's never ending point three. Where do you put the cents? So there was a lot involved beyond that, and it was extremely stressful. And I thought I didn't like the job. I was traveling back and forth to... From Frankfurt to Chicago, spending more time in Chicago. I had a girlfriend at the time in London, so I was traveling there, working insane hours, eighty hours a week. I dealt with very difficult bosses from Frankfurt. And the alliance fell apart after about a year. I moved back to Chicago, and I told the staffing person as far as who was looking for my next assignment for this systems integration firm, I need something less stressful. I I cannot do this again.

The Hong Kong Clearing Corp had called me up and wanted me to work there, and I was on the phone with him, and I said, wait a second. I was doing the time zone change. I'm like, it's 4AM in Hong Kong, and he's talking to me. So I said to him, are you just getting into work, are you just leaving work? And he said, well, I'm just wrapping up. I'm about to leave work. I said, I I just can't do another one of these. We used to call them death marches back back then. Can't do it. So I said no, and my staffing coordinator found me this project in Chicago on a communications carrier. It's called a competitive local exchange.

Over the summer in Chicago, it was forty hours a week, mandatory, couldn't charge overtime, so you didn't have a choice. You had to leave, come in at whatever it was, 08:00, leave at five. I had plenty of time to enjoy Chicago in the summer. I joined a softball league. I was the manager. I played euchre at a local pub. Spent tons of time with my friends. You'd think it would be a way better experience, but years after both of those were over, my fondest memories and my best relationships came from the German stock exchange, Euro exchange, CBOT project in Frankfurt.

One of the guys I work with the most there, we still talk. I was just on the phone with him last week talking about a startup that he is creating in... Out of Denver for health care. I barely remember the CLEC summer project. I remember the softball, and I remember the Euchre card games in the Chicago bar, but I I don't... I didn't learn. I didn't grow. Being challenged, doing interesting things, solving really difficult problems, working with really interesting people who also want to solve difficult problems, that's what I realized really gave me fulfillment and why after I retired and took a year or so off, I realized I... I'm not built to stay retired. I need to go back and do what I really mostly enjoy doing even through the stress.

Ben BeeriAnd what did you find was the thing that you wanted to go back and do?

Jeff RoedersheimerWell, at first, I thought it was just getting back into technology with AI and what was going... I mean, I left in 2023 right as the... Well, I guess, AgenTic is really what we're living with now, but generative AI was really starting to come up in 2023, and I was leaving. So I thought going back and getting back to technology, but it really... It's working with teams on any problem that deals with optimizing things. Like, I like to build and create, but I think what I like better is optimizing things.

Optimizing people, process, data, and technology. It's not just technology. It's how it melds with people, how you use data, and how you can reengineer processes around it all to get better outcomes for an organization. The more complex, the better, for me at least.

Ben BeeriAnd what do you feel drew you to, like, have those fond memories? Like, you're talking about how it was really stressful for it. You talk about these complex problems. You talk about the relationships that you built during that time. Mhmm. What was the part where you're like, hey, like, I'd much rather have this, as difficult as it is, rather than the retired life?

Jeff RoedersheimerYeah. It definitely is not something that I was always aware of. So when I finished the... I mean, that... Those two projects I just talked about that I worked on, that was 1999. It was many, many years ago. And I sorta knew that, you know, what doesn't break you makes you stronger. And I realized that, but I also didn't quite know what pieces of that were driving the fulfillment and the sense of accomplishment and the purpose, probably is the most important word there, and what was truly the stress.

And I I think I told myself... I I kinda lied to myself that there was something out there where you could completely divorce stress, fear, anxiety, those types of emotions from the fulfillment, the purpose, the joy. Like, for me, I realize those cannot be completely detangled. They're they live together for a reason. Now do I wanna... After being retired for a couple years, do I wanna go back to, you know, sixty eight hours a week and 24 by seven operations and things that can, you know, wake you up at 3AM because systems go down. No. I don't wanna do that.

But I do wanna go back to doing things that probably most people would say you're crazy to want to do that. Why not just walk on the beach? Why not just paddleboard? Why not just go for a run or do a race or, you know, cook a dinner? All those things are good. I like doing those, but it's not quite enough.

Ben BeeriWhat was your vision of retirement? Like, when did you first think about it? When did you first get to a place of, like, hey. Like, it's time to walk away?

Jeff RoedersheimerWell, a few years before I retired, probably four years before I retired, I would have said I, for the most part, liked my job and would be working more than four years longer. I didn't know how much because I, again, I had told myself that retirement is the goal. And I realized even four years before I retired that I probably had enough financially to retire, but I wasn't done yet. I still had things I wanted to accomplish. But I got up to a point in my career at the time where they say two things happen and make you retire. One of two things. Either you have enough or you've had enough.

And I kinda got to the second place where I had had enough, and I needed a break. And again, remember, was telling myself this story. This this is the destination. You know, you retire, that's that's it. You've made it. So I had been warned. You know, Jeff, remember, when you retire, you know, have plan. Have something you wanna do. And I had... I have so many hobbies. I mean, and not just hobbies. I'm involved in several nonprofits. I still have youngish kids. I'm a very active person, so I wasn't... I was like, oh, I'm not gonna... I'll be fine. I've got plenty of things I could do.

And the first year was great. I did all those things. But again, I I realized after a year, something was missing, something that almost I didn't want to admit was missing. That that thing that, you know, gave me a lot of stress, really, that really challenged me, it was actually part of who I was. That's how I'm built. I'm built to to do that.

Ben BeeriBut what made it a goal? Like, why was retirement the goal for you?

Jeff RoedersheimerI think I fell into the narrative that many of us are told. I don't think it's just a United States problem, I think it's a global problem that retirement's the destination. I mean, think about all the movies and stories, and even in your own life, you go to retirement parties when you're at the retirement party. Everybody's congratulating everybody. You made it. You did it. The books and stories you read where people are like, they're just waiting to retire. You can't wait till they retire. So I I bought into that thinking, I mean, I'd never been retired before.

I've been working really since I was probably 12 years old. So I just figured it must be great considering how much people talk about it and how many parties are thrown. Don't get me wrong, there's there's some niceties about retirement, but it's not what I thought it would be.

Ben BeeriWhat do you feel like the greatest misconceptions are about retirement?

Jeff RoedersheimerI think it's literally... And I think this is... It's my same misconception. So I'm sure there's others here, and I'm sure people don't experience this. It depends on who you are, how you're built, what you go through, and when you retire. But I I think people, unfortunately, take the things that bring... That's bringing them down in their working life, and they sort of package it all as one thing called work. And they don't think about the aspects of work that they may think they don't like, but there's pieces and components when you really look at it that you actually do like.

So when you go into retirement, you start missing those things. So those are the things that are not very obvious. There's other things that are pretty obvious. Like, you know, I used to go into the office, and I would see 10, maybe a 100 people plus a day, 12 to 16 meetings a day. Multiple problems, lots of context switching. It could be tiring. It could be exhausting, but those social interactions... I mean, I went cold turkey. Woke up Monday morning. I had no meetings. I didn't... Don't even think I left the house that day.

I used to go out and do my chores and errands and just go do them, go to Home Depot, go get what I needed, go to the grocery store, get what I needed, go wherever. Now, where after I was retired, I found myself talking to everybody. I kinda understand my parents a little bit more of why my father talks to literally everybody because I missed the social interactions that I hadn't read when I was working.

Ben BeeriWhat do you feel like you learned from it?

Jeff RoedersheimerWell, I I say probably one of the bigger takeaways is not to take things at face value all the time. Just because you're told something or about life and relationships, you really need to to think about it more deeply and what it means to you, and really think about what brings you you personally purpose, and what your values are, and what you consider success in your day because it's different for everybody. And I think in in our culture, we wanna narrow it down to be this simple equation, that it's the same equation for everybody. Everybody wants to retire in this sort of situation, and that's just not the case. People are more complex than that.

And I think I should have been more... Should have looked harder at what it was like and what it would be like and really asked those kind of questions at the time and not just taken it for face value that, of course, this is a destination. I should have done that. But what that means is I I need to do that with more more things, which is odd I'm saying that because I'm a very analytical person. But I did the analytics on process and data and people's jobs and technology, not on emotions and what brings you joy and what brings you purpose.

I never really analyzed that the same way, and I I think you do have to... And that's not an easy... It's not even calculus. I mean, it's it's very complex. And you really have to get to know yourself to be able to answer those questions.

Ben BeeriReally complex. It's really interesting to think about the things that bring you joy and the things bring you purpose because so many of those things, you really don't fully have control over what they are or why they are or when they arrive, they just happen. Yep. And so for you, what do you feel brings you joy and purpose?

Jeff RoedersheimerWell, it's it's experiences and relationships, but various kinds. Right? So, look, when I'm working with my nonprofits and working with people to help people, that brings me purpose and joy. When I'm in the kitchen cooking food for other people, the process of cooking the food and putting new tastes together and then sharing it with my friends and family, that brings me joy and purpose. But also taking a complex process in a situation and working with a team to optimize it and improve it and do something that you didn't think you were really gonna be able to do, really move the needle on something, and come up with innovative differentiating solutions as a team.

And, you know, maybe I could do that with cooking or my nonprofits, but, look, I did I did that with large organizations, with technology and data for almost thirty years. To just put that down and walk away permanently, it was probably not a good idea, and hence why I've gone back part time to do it.

Ben BeeriYou talk about the process. You sound like a process guy.

Jeff RoedersheimerYeah. I mean, I like I I like process. I like data. I like technology, working with people to optimize things. I... You know, when I was very young, I got a computer, and I got really into coding and building programs in my parents' basement in the mid eighties. But then I also, like, even when I was a kid, liked to optimize processes, like how we parked the cars in our driveway so that it was easy to get the cars out so I could shoot hoops in the in the backyard, how we could optimize how we manage our kitchen and where we put things. I was always interested in that. And when I went to school, university, I picked up two majors I didn't think I would do. I thought I might do technology or business, and I ended up doing decision sciences, which was data and business, and operations, which was a lot about process optimization. I learned about Deming and Taguchi and all these people that helped revolutionize corporate and manufacturing processes.

So even though most people see me as a technology guy,

Ben BeeriI think I'm also a data and process person, as you pointed out. So many people run from the process. Like, they just look at the destination or the goal or the result. Well, yeah, but the process is what gets you there. Right? That's part of the journey. So Yeah. No. That's that's the really interesting part because it's like you sit there and you think about it. It's like, hey. There's a goal to get to, whether it's retirement or to spend more time with your family, but there is a process to get to that.

So how do you get to a place where you can fall in love with the process?

Jeff RoedersheimerWell, you know, as we as we talk about it though, that... I I think it's... It really is true that the process is the journey, isn't it? Yeah. Like, the the the the things that you do and how you do them to get to that goal, that's the journey. And I think building a process, no matter what it is, like if it's a corporate process or your process to put a dish together, I think, you know, why fight it? Why fight it if it'll actually help you get there in a better way? A better way might be a more efficient, effective way. A better way might be a more fun way.

So, yeah, I I think everybody should... I mean, it sounds strange to embrace the process because most people feel like that's overhead, but you you can avoid it. You have to go through some sort of process to get to a destination.

Ben BeeriIt's interesting. Like, was thinking about this the other day. I went to a good friend's wedding, and to think of, like, the culmination of two people coming together, and they meet, they have a relationship for a certain period of time. They decide that they love each other, and they want to get married. And everyone goes to the wedding and celebrates the wedding as if, hey, like, this is the destination. Like, this is what we've been waiting for. Mhmm. And I'm not married. You are. You could probably speak to this. That's really just the beginning. And it's like, there's so much more process to get there, but then there's a process after that.

Mhmm. And we really are living a life of process after process after process, and it doesn't matter what we're doing. It's like if you don't love the process and the journey that you're on, it's like you can go for all the different destinations that you want to go for, but ultimately, you're just going to be miserable in between destinations.

Jeff RoedersheimerYeah. Yeah. Well, I think human nature... There must be something about humans that we need checkpoints and milestones to celebrate. So if I think about something that I went through, see, you just went to a wedding. I just went to my son's high school graduation. He's my youngest. And when you have a child, you know, when they're born, they're completely dependent on you. Right? I mean, completely dependent on you. But then every day that goes by, that dependence decreases and changes. They're dependent on you in different ways.

And the process of them leaving the household is not an over... For most people, an overnight thing. They grow further and further from their parents. You know, when he he graduated, but he's still gonna be here this summer. He's gonna be working, and then he's gonna go off to university. But he'll be back for holidays and hopefully a summer or two. So it's not like he graduates and it's over, but the amount of tears that were spelt during that high school graduation by all parents was incredible because it's such a poignant milestone of that journey and that process of becoming an adult and a process of disconnecting from the parents.

It's it's quite unusual that we just... You... We need that, all those emotions to come together and celebrate that, even though that's just a celebration. That has nothing to do with their journey to become an independent person and, you know, maybe get married someday and have their kids and do the process all over again.

Ben BeeriSo how do we get to these places where we acknowledge the checkpoints, we celebrate them, but we don't let it interfere with what our next process is?

Jeff RoedersheimerWell, I think it's something that I hope I do more of, which is live more in the moment. Not be always looking forward to that next milestone so much. I think it's important to have goals and milestones, but live in the moment and live in the process for a while. You know? Look for the small things along the way that maybe are bigger milestones than the the checkbox moment, the party, the wedding, the graduation. So that's something maybe I'm... You know, hopefully, I can do more of. And I will say that is one nice thing about retirement. I have more time to reflect and think about these things, And that's that's a privilege to be able to do in retirement. So I would say, you know, that's a nicety.

Ben BeeriSo as you reflect, what are some processes that you may not have liked at the time, but looking back at it now, appreciate?

Jeff RoedersheimerWell, you know, at the time, I would really struggle with, I have to get on an airplane, I have to go to a new city, go to an organization that I've never been to before, have to, within days, get smart on what's going on with their technology and data and process and people, and the stress and overwhelming nature of that, and just the hassle of the travel and all that pieces. Looking back and reflecting on it, yeah, there was a lot of stuff I didn't like, but there were things in there that I just couldn't see that I did enjoy.

Seeing a new city, meeting new people, learning a new business, learning new problems to solve, learning new ways to solve problems, learning from others. Like, doing that and putting yourself out there and going through that much where you're literally being sprayed with a fire hose of information, and you have maybe even hassles with travel, but you're absorbing, and you're learning, and you're growing through that. I can't imagine if I just went to the... You know, looking back, I may have said, gosh. It'd be nice if I could just drive five minutes to work and go to the same office and work on the same problems.

Talk about boring. It might be stress free. It might be easy, but I'm not learning and growing. It goes back to my example of the Chicago border trade and the German exchange versus the, you know, summer in Chicago at the easy telecom company. All that stress and all that difficulty hid the fact that I was learning and growing and building great relationships and learning to trust people quickly because you have to when you're under pressure. You really get to know people and who they really are when you're under pressure.

I think that's the that's the part that I think, you know, it's nice to be able to to step back and now be able to see what what really brings you purpose and joy even though maybe at the time it didn't feel so good.

Ben BeeriNow did you feel throughout this process that your retirement or the goal that you were looking for, do you feel that that was earned, or did you feel that that was something that you really ultimately would have been best kind of, like, letting go of the outcome and getting there? Like, did you feel like you had to really push yourself to get there?

Jeff RoedersheimerYeah. I mean, when I when I left university and joined with the the systems integrator, it was known as Anderson Consulting at the time. It's known as Accenture now. Most people stayed very little, a year or two, and then would get a job at a client. Turnover is 20%. I thought that'd be me. And then after three or four years, and I still was there, I thought, well, maybe I can make partner here. And so that was my goal. If I can just make partner, that... That'll do it. I'll have I'll have succeeded. I'll I'll have achieved my goal.

Then I made partner, and I was selling a lot, and I was doing a lot less doing and working with teams, and a more... A lot more travel and sales. And I said, this isn't exactly... This isn't what I wanna do. What I wanna do is all the stuff I was doing before I made partner. I wanna I wanna build stuff with a team, so I left. I left that consulting practice, and I went to the other side of the table, they call it. And I worked for a large corporation where I had the same office for fourteen years, and I worked with a lot of the same people, and we built stuff together.

And I really enjoyed that as well. Now that I'm getting back to work, I'm going back to consulting because I I realized there were, as I already stated, there aspects I I liked about that. So I think even when I was, you know, on the other side of the table, I I had a goal of reaching a certain level in that company. But I just got to the point, and maybe it's wisdom, maybe it's just working for a certain amount of time, where I realized that that the title, the the bank account, the... That's not really that's not really it as we talked. It's it's the journey, and am I glad I retired?

Maybe I should have stayed, but, you know, that decision's made. Now the question is, what do I do tomorrow and today to get the fulfillment and the purpose that I want out of life, and what are the new experiences I can go go do?

Ben BeeriWhat do you feel like you have to earn today?

Jeff RoedersheimerWhat do I need to earn? That's a really good question. I don't I don't feel like I need to earn anything. I I think I need to give back. I think I'm at a point in my life that I... I'd like to do two things, two accomplishments, if you will. I wanna try to, and I fail a lot, but always be a better person according to my values. So if I can continuously be a better person, I got work to do for all those around me, be a better husband, be a better father, be a better friend. That's a great goal. And then the other thing that I want to do is give back.

One of my favorite sayings... I think the... There's a Boy Scout saying like this, and I was not a Boy Scout, but leave everything the same or better than you found it. So how can I help our society be better? What can I make better than it is today? What can I build so when I'm gone, it's it's better? And I mean better for everybody. Better for the Earth and better for everybody on on the planet. If I can... Those are the two things I wanna do. So I I don't I don't feel like I need to to earn anything anymore. I think I've I've passed that that point.

Ben BeeriWhen did the mindset shift?

Jeff RoedersheimerI think a couple years before I I I retired. I think if I finally kind of decided, what am I exactly chasing and doing here? What's the purpose of this? And that's back to my saying, I've... I had enough, and I had had enough. And it just... I'm I'm a really competitive person. I always have been extremely competitive. And somewhere in my journey, I started getting less competitive for the end goal and more competitive just for each individual outcome. So one of my favorite examples is I used to coach my kids' soccer teams when they were in AYSO.

And I coached some good teams, and I coached some really bad teams. And one of the teams, we weren't gonna win. I could tell right as soon as our first game and second game, this is... We'll be lucky. But instead of being down on losing the games, I got excited about the great plays. And even if we only strung a couple good plays together, that was fulfilling for me. We played as a team. We played really well, even if only for a few minutes. And the comp... The competitive nature more was about being competitive about the things that really matter, which is learning and growing together, finding joy, finding purpose, and not just chasing that destination.

So I think it's been a journey. I don't think... To our point, I don't think there was a milestone where I could add the party. It just slowly changed into the fact that I didn't need to earn or chase or win. My son and I went and drove go karts the other day, and I've... He beats me in simulated driving all the time because he plays video games a lot, but I've been beating him in real driving quite a bit. But we got in go karts the other day, and he beat me for the first time. He's 18. Okay. And he's he's a good driver. I do weigh a little bit more than him, but we'll just take that out of the equation. But he beat me, and I was happy for him. It was great. I wasn't competitive at all. I mean, I tried to beat him. It's not like I let him win. Heck no.

But I wasn't disappointed. I think it's great. It's awesome to see him. And I I think that'd be true, not just of my son, but of anybody. You know? I'm getting more satisfaction out of seeing other people succeed. Not mine. I want other people to succeed. I wanna be a better person, and I wanna leave things better than I found it. That's awesome.

Ben BeeriThat's awesome. And it sounds like you're really getting to a place where you want to see the world a better place, you want to see the people around you better, and you've worked to create for yourself, and seeing other people create their destinies and things that they want to do, that seems fulfilling right now. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I mean,

Jeff Roedersheimermean, these are all aspirational goals. I've got work to do. During the graduation I spoke about earlier, one of the speakers said, never... No one's ever fully arrived. We're always learning and growing, but, you know, that's the direction I wanna go now. I'm sure I'll have failures. I'll learn from them, and I'll hopefully continue in the in the right path. But... And I wanna learn from others, you know, on how to best go about this given my goals today.

Ben BeeriDid you ever feel like you had arrived?

Jeff RoedersheimerI think when I... You know, there's certain milestones you have. You know, when I was when I was just even looking for a job before I left university, we were just getting out of the recession in '93. I graduated in '94, and jobs were a little scarce. And the company I worked... Got a job with in Chicago, Anderson Consulting, I think a 100 people interviewed, and they gave out three or four positions, and I got one of them. So I was like, this is awesome. Maybe maybe I got that... I got the job I didn't think I was gonna get.

But then day one, there's 20 people starting on day one. So there's 20 people from all these other schools, and we're starting together, and now we're... Okay. Now what's the next milestone that know, I told you I was competitive. You know? Who's gonna get to partner first? And then after fifteen... Well, guess I made partner after about twelve years, making partner. Was that the goal? Did I arrive? Okay. Well, as I told you before, is this what I really wanna be doing? I got I got the title, but is this it?

So I think there are moments when you think you do, even accomplishing projects, putting in big systems, solving really difficult problems, I think. But then it's like, what what does that mean, arrive? What does that mean? I I think it's different for everybody. I don't I don't know. I... It's not it's not the destination. It's a journey. So I don't know how you can arrive if the journey is the goal. It's

Ben Beeritrue. And I've been thinking about that a lot lately. And I go thinking about like earning versus allowing. Right? And it's like, is true arrival really just being in a state of presence at all times, and really allowing what's in front of you to unfold the way that it's meant to unfold without having to force an outcome. Yeah.

Jeff RoedersheimerIt's like a turn of phrase in there. Like, truly arriving means that you have let go of arrival being a destination. You've arrived to realize that it's the process. It's the journey. And living in the moment, as we talked about earlier, it's something I wanna work on more is living in the moment. I mean, worrying about the future too much is anxiety. Opining on the past too much is depression.

Ben BeeriWell, live in the moment. Live in the moment. I love it. I love it. You feel like you had something to prove at any point in time? Oh, yeah. For sure.

Jeff RoedersheimerI I think just my upbringing. I grew up in a fairly intense environment. Expectations were high. I was into a lot of sports and did... I think I did almost every every athletic thing. I mean, back in Ohio where I grew up in the seventies and eighties, everybody did every sport. Even in high school, you didn't... You did three sports. You know, you did the fall sport, the winter sport, and the spring sport. So it was... I always felt this pressure to succeed and perform. I mean, I started working at 12.

Started making money at 12 years old, delivering papers and mowing lawns. And I always thought, you know, the goal was to get more, get more, do more, earn more, get the bigger title. So I'm... Guess I'm happy I got to a point early enough to realize that that's not the end or be all. Now it's easy for me to say that being retired, but I think it's true for everybody, honestly, really.

Ben BeeriAnd you said the expectations were high. Mhmm. Whose expectations were they?

Jeff RoedersheimerIt'd be easy for me to say it was my parents. That's the easy answer. But really, they're my my own expectations. I put them on myself. I'm very self critical and hard on myself, even to this day. Like, I'll... Something will go wrong on a home project, and I'll get mad. And my my wife will be like, what's wrong? What what happened? Like, what what... Who are you angry at? I'm like, myself. I I should have done this better. I should have done better. I have to be reminded to give myself a little bit of grace. You know? I'm gonna make mistakes. I'm gonna screw up.

But I'm getting better at it. It's taken me a while. It'd probably take me a lot longer than most people, but getting a little bit better.

Ben BeeriIt's interesting. I view things pretty similarly for myself. It's like being in a place of wanting to do certain things if something doesn't go away that I expect it to go. Hard on myself, not very much grace. And then the next thing I find is receiving becomes kind of an issue. It's like being in a place of, hey, like, how can I allow myself to receive? Mhmm. Receive from others, receive from myself, receive in general. Yeah. Is that something you've come across as well? Oh, yeah.

Jeff RoedersheimerMany of my friends would would say, I I can't take, like, a compliment. I can't take a compliment to save my life. Like, I really just... I just skimmed right over it like they didn't say it. It's very difficult for for me to do that. Now with that being said, that drive and me being so hard on myself and wanting... I mean, I'm... I'd like to say I'm a recovering perfectionist, that I'm not recovering. Maybe I'm working on being less than one. But that drive to to do well and do it right and get it right, that's led me to to where I am. That's given me a lot of advantages in life. But it also has made, you know, it stressful, and it's stuff I need to work on.

Do you feel like you're worthy of compliments or grace or receiving? I don't know. That's a really good question. Probably for my therapist. There's probably something in there. But I don't know. I don't... I think it's just always, you know, for so many years of my life, always believing I had to do better. There's always better out there and striving to do better. I think the the compliment or the grace feels like a... Like you're letting your foot off the gas. You know? Like, if they say, oh, well done, well, does that mean I can take my foot off the gas? That doesn't feel comfortable. I need to put my... I need to keep my foot on the gas, so don't say that.

Don't say I've arrived. I still need to keep going.

Ben BeeriTo where? I don't know, but I need to keep going. Where do you feel that originates from?

Jeff RoedersheimerI I think... I mean, I'm a big believer that everybody's a combination of nature and nurture, so... And it's not a... It's not simple algebra. It's not even calculus. It's a complex web of your DNA, how you were raised, the friends you had, the situations you were put in at a young age. All of that mixes together to create unique individuals that have their own drivers, and

Ben Beeriissues, and feelings, and problems, and what have you. What's the situation you experienced at a young age that you feel really shaped who you are today?

Jeff RoedersheimerI would say when I was in elementary school, I was not a good student. I think my parents were worried about me. My father was very accomplished. He was a a navy captain, JAG navy captain, defense department attorney, ran the office for a base. My mother was a artist, successful interior decorator. My sister did well in elementary school, all straight As. Junior high, she was straight As, and I was the misfit, maybe. I I just didn't do well in school. I was a C student, if I was lucky. And I sort of was... Told myself I was okay with that. Like, what's wrong with c? That's average. Right? Like, a lot of people are average. That's why it's called average.

And at some point, I started realizing that like, why not try? Like, if you're... Like, why sort of just let life happen to you? I think it was probably in junior high or entering high school. Like, if I just put a little effort in, maybe good things will happen. And I didn't think I was, like... I thought I had the talent. I just didn't really wanna apply myself for some reason. So I I finally decided it was time to, like, actually try. And that wasn't just me. That was, you know, my parents. That was my sister.

I was looking around at others and realizing, maybe I do want more out of life, and I should really apply the talents and gifts that, you know, whoever you believe in gave me. And I think that's where it started, and I really started to apply myself. And I think I actually had an advantage in that. I wasn't a kid that was told from day one, oh, you're so smart. Oh, you're so so good. You're always gonna... You're gonna be successful. You're gonna be successful. I was on the other side of that equation.

So I was immediately trying to make up for lost ground and prove that, oh, wait. Hold on a minute. Maybe I can be maybe I can be good at this too. Maybe I can be successful in school. So that goes back to the question you had before. Do I feel like I had to earn it? Back then, absolutely. Absolutely.

Ben BeeriAnd where did you feel like your life was heading at that time?

Jeff RoedersheimerI think I... I mean, in high school, thought that, you know, I didn't quite realize that, you know, your talents plus grit and drive is what will make you successful. Like, you're not just gonna be handed anything. So I think that was part of that shift. Like, k. You you may be able to sort of get by, but if you actually try and put some effort in, that's what's gonna get you ahead. It's not just talent alone. So it's... That that work ethic and that applying myself, I think, really was a differentiator of, okay. I need to do this. And then through doing that, realized I actually like doing that. Like, it's not so bad to work hard and have grit and work those eighty hours.

It feels bad at the time, but you get a lot out of it that you didn't know you were getting.

Ben BeeriAnd so your parents were worried about you. Was there ever a point where you were worried about yourself, or you're like, hey, like, I kind of doubt who I am?

Jeff RoedersheimerI think if if that... I never really had... If I I had anything around lack of confidence, it would probably be more typical for people, which is, will I be able to get along with people? Do people wanna really spend time with me? I think that was probably more my worry or fear. I think I sorta knew that I had some skill and talent. I just didn't wanna apply myself. But the worry and fear would be more... Because, right, relationships, it's not, you know... I I... Figuring out a math equation, I could do.

Figuring out statistics, writing code, figuring out logic of a computer. I mean, logic... I love doing logic problems. There's an answer. There's a path. Relationships aren't that way at all. So I think that's probably where I lacked confidence, was how do you do that, and will I be good at that or not? What did you learn from that? Well, I learned it is insolvable. It really is. I mean, I know people have written a ton of books on how to win friends and influence people, to name one. But people are people.

Like, when I first started working in corporate America right out of university, I used to look at c level executives and partners and even senior vice presidents and those types of people almost in awe. Like, oh, wow. Look at all they do. And I was nervous in front of them. I'd be nervous when presenting. I might get in front of a 100 people to do a presentation, and I'd be flop sweating. And then I started realizing that they're just people. They're just like all of us. Why am I overthinking this?

Like, just be yourself. Be kind. Treat people the way you wanna be treated, and you'll probably be okay. You may not be, you know, mister charisma and have every friend in the universe, but you'll probably be okay if you follow that formula of just being yourself, being honest, being kind, and treat people like you wanna be treated. It's it's not... Even though it's so complex, people are people. They'll have grace for you as long as you have grace for them. So I think that was... It took me a while to get there, though, on that one.

Why do you feel it took you a while? Because, I mean, there's a lot of... Again, like, it... You can't you can't figure it out. You keep asking yourself, like, how do I... What's the formula? What's the formula? It can't be as easy as I just said. There must be something I'm I'm missing. Relationships are, as we talked about before, I believe the purpose of life is relationships and experiences. So if relationships are that important, that's probably why we overthink them so much, because they are so important.

But the irony is, if you overthink them too much, you're probably gonna screw them up a little bit. Go back to the simple simple aspects of what makes people people. Don't overthink it too much, and I did. I tried to solve it, and I don't think you really solve it per se.

Ben BeeriDo you feel like in life sometimes we intellectualize things to a place where we're not actually able to experience the real thing? Yeah. For sure. Yeah.

Jeff RoedersheimerAbsolutely, I think we do that. I think I'm definitely guilty of that because I do... I just am a very logical, analytical person, so I definitely do that. I think I've just gotten better the more years I've lived and the more experiences I've had, and I start to see patterns in things and realize where I've been over intellectualizing things and not just getting back to what makes people people and the simple things in life.

Ben BeeriAre there any areas of your life where you feel like you're still like protective, and like overanalyzing, versus other areas where you feel like, hey, like, I'm good with this. Like, I'm okay with letting go of the outcome here.

Jeff RoedersheimerI'm I'm better. I'm sure there are areas where I'm still have, I mean, got work to do. I don't know. Ironically, I have to think about that. I'll probably overanalyze that now. Thanks, Ben. There we go. Absolutely.

Ben BeeriAnd it's interesting, you bring up the different things from childhood and hey, feeling kind of you've gotta prove yourself and overcome different things. What is it that you feel could have been there to support you when you were younger that would have put you on a smoother path?

Jeff RoedersheimerWell, I... That's a great question. I have thought about this one, and I've thought about this one because I'm in this... One of my nonprofits I work on is Quarter Point of Special Advocates. And I'm on the board for OC for three years now, but I've been an advocate for six. I'm on my second youth. And as an advocate, you're sort of the mentor, and you... An advocate for these children in the foster care system who are basically wards in The States. And you go to you go to court for them, you meet with them every couple weeks, and you sort of give them guidance, if you will.

As I've done that role, I think every teenager could use that person in their life, not just those in the system that don't have parents around. I think every teenager could use somebody that's not their parent, but is an adult that's on a good path, that has their blank together, that can be a mentor on a periodic basis for teenagers. I think it would be extremely helpful. So you asked what I could have used that would have given me more scaffolding so I could have gone through my journey maybe better.

It would be that. Some sort of mentor like that probably from, I would say, probably a young age, probably eight or nine or 10 years old all the way until 25. I learned recently that that's actually what they used to do in Rome. So in Rome, boys were become... Became citizens at, like, 14 or 15 years old. You were an adult. But they realized, I mean, you could farm, and you could do some certain things at 14, 15, you could have a family, weren't real bright, and they needed help. So they were assigned a mentor until they were 25, till the frontal lobe was a little bit more developed. That was something they did.

And then the age for being an adult was increased because of war, because boys couldn't wear armor and they just weren't big enough. And they felt like if you're gonna go to war, you need to be an adult to go to war. So they actually moved the age up. I think it actually, a little history lesson, went up to 21, but then during World War one, there weren't enough people to fight the war, they dropped it back down to 18 to be an adult and go to war.

Ben BeeriWell, they gotta hit their quotas. Yeah. Well, I guess, to win the war. It's interesting, because you bring up mentorship, and that's such an important thing for so many people, and so many people don't have it. Yeah. Did you have any mentors when you were younger?

Jeff RoedersheimerI mean, when I got into work life out of university, more specifically, but not until then. I had teachers that I might identify that is short lived. I had a I had a sixth grade science teacher that got me into computers. That's probably why I started programming in sixth grade in 1984 or '5 or whenever it was. I had another instructor in high school that taught me Pascal. There was, like, six people in the class learning to code Pascal, and after one week, there was just me. The other five people dropped it.

And the professor who was part time, he had a full time job. He just came in to teach coding because back then, none of the teachers in high school understood what that was. And he said to me, Jeff, you're really good at this coding thing, and he helped me a lot. And I was like, I don't wanna do this for a living. Are you kidding me? Who would wanna do this? You gotta remember, in the mid eighties, late eighties, it was not a glamorous thing at all to do that job. He probably wasn't real happy that I diminished what he did for a living. And I look back on his advice and his help, and I'm glad I had it. I just wish I was a little nicer to him.

Ben BeeriYeah. What is it about coding that you loved?

Jeff RoedersheimerI liked the logical nature of it. I liked automating things and solving problems. I was just on a call today, and I said to somebody that every good technologist needs to be a little bit lazy because the goal is to automate things, and to write something, to build something that just does things sort of almost like magic, I mean, back then especially, you can't see it necessarily. You don't even know how all the inner parts work even if you're down to assembly or binary code. And there's a right answer.

Right? It either works or it doesn't work. I wasn't a big syntax guy. When I would write my programs, I would have so many syntax errors, it was crazy. I'm a horrible speller. I might be the worst speller on the planet. I really do believe that. Thankfully, I married one of the better spellers on the planet. That happens. But I hate... I did horrible syntax. But when I would compile it and run it, usually the logic would work.

Ben BeeriI'm really good at the logic. There we go. How do you feel about the current state of coding with AI and everything?

Jeff RoedersheimerWell, my son followed in my footsteps. He started programming younger than me. He knows multiple languages. He really loves it. And he wanted to go into computer science, and I said, I don't know if you should do that because of generative and agentic AI and what it's doing to computer science, really software engineering. Thankfully, he's gonna pick up a second major in engineering. But I I am a... I'm... I mean, there's definitely room for software development and engineering. It's just gonna look different.

And it's not enough just to understand syntax and logic. You also need to be really creative. And what agentic and generative are not gonna do for you is determine finding the gap and understanding what's gonna fill the gap per se, and working with humans on what they're going to want. So product managers, designers, being creative with solutions, figuring out how to improve solutions. I think that's still... That role in technology will exist for quite a while.

Ben BeeriDo you feel like AI is helping or hurting society right now?

Jeff RoedersheimerI'm gonna say both. It's kinda like social media. I think social media... Well, these days I feel like social media is mostly hurting, but there's definitely some goodness in it. I think AI is the same way. I I think if you can remove, and this is impossible, but if you can remove greed and you can... And we can figure out how to create energy in a much more sustainable way, AI could lead to true abundance for this planet. But those are two big caveats, because I think human potential or productivity to greed is... Can be a problem, And AI is used in social media too for not good things.

Ben BeeriSo if AI was used the way you would want it to to create abundance, what would that look like?

Jeff RoedersheimerYou know, if you think about, like, what people like to do in their jobs, when they say most people, it's usually not doing mundane, monotonous, repetitive, drudgery kind of work. It's just not. And that's what general technology can do for you, and AI can do even more of it for you. So abundance is a world where people can just do the things that people are best at and that you like to do, and we outsource the rest to technology. Let technology do all that mundane, boring, repetitive, complex stuff that maybe we don't wanna do. You can always choose to do it, and people can focus on what we do well, which is relationships, being creative, things we wanna do. So...

And abundance, by the way, is abundance for everybody. So reduce disease, reduce hunger, reduce people being without homes. I think there's a lot we could do on this planet, and I think technology is a a real enabler if we use it right, for sure.

Ben BeeriHow do we take a step in the right direction?

Jeff RoedersheimerWell, I really don't like regulation. I'm sort of a free markets person, but I realize you have to counteract humans and their greed, so you need some regulation. Otherwise, people can do some pretty nasty things. So I think we need to come up with some ways to to regulate AI, and we also need society to pressure organizations to do the right things. In fact, I would actually rather that happen than the former. When companies go about and they do things that aren't good for society, we as consumers should not fund that organization.

That's the real power, And let it... Instead of letting the government try to keep them from doing it. I think we... People need to, as a community, decide what we want our society to look like and our communities to look like. And when an organization or a person doesn't do that, we should call them out and hold them accountable and not give them more of our business.

Ben BeeriWhat does abundance mean to you?

Jeff RoedersheimerIt's people living how they want to live and doing the things they want to do. There's, you know, the fact that we still have wars in this day and age, I mean, I'd remove that right away. The fact that we have people going hungry when we have all this food surplus around the world, the fact that we haven't... With all this technology that we still are dealing with so many diseases, why haven't we solved more of those? Let's name some big ones.

Ben BeeriWhat do you feel like we can do to build on them?

Jeff RoedersheimerLet's go back to where we started. I think the more we can get people to understand that helping others and being in the moment and that relationships and experiences and building things to be better is the real destination, if you will, even though you're never there. It's a journey. If we can get people to focus on that, I think we can get there. As opposed to putting people on a pedestal that have just earned or received a lot of money. Putting people on a pedestal because they can do a sport better than other people.

I think that's great, but I don't know if they're not necessarily a better person. Just because someone has more money or nicer things does not make them a better person, and I think we, a society, it'd be great if we could get people to to really accept that. And if we can do that, that'll start to remove that greed aspect.

Ben BeeriWhat do you feel has shaped your view on that?

Jeff RoedersheimerI think a a lot of things. As I said earlier, I've always been competitive. I've always been a fan of capitalism. You should earn your way. I've always had a little bit even early on that we should give a hand up and help people. I'm a Christian and a Catholic, but that's developed more as I've gotten older, and there's lots of reasons. But knowing that what people go through... Like, I had a really good friend who who is no longer... Is my best friend, one of my best friends since second grade. He's no longer here. He died ten years ago.

He got sick. He didn't choose to get sick. It just happened to him. People don't choose their parents. People don't choose bad things that happen to them all the time. A lot of life is luck and timing, starting with who your parents are and what country and state and city you're born in. And I think it took me some time to realize that this isn't... Everybody doesn't have an equal chance in life. We're all dealt different cards at the table. Some people get pocket aces. Some people get a seven two off suit.

Texas hold them. It'd be bat hand. Some people get a good flop. Some people don't. So how can we still strive and work hard and do the best that we can and get some reward, but also give back?

Ben BeeriSo how do you feel like faith has played a role in your life and who you are today?

Jeff RoedersheimerI think it's it's pretty big. Bigger than I realized. I mean, when I used to go to church as a kid, I didn't like it. I didn't wanna go. My parents had to... Getting me out of bed to go to church was difficult. Am I glad they did it? I guess so. I didn't really start going back until I was in my twenties. And when I did, to be candid, I was... Maybe I could meet some girls here. Wasn't necessarily to go back for church, even though I sort of maybe missed it. It was mostly to see if I could meet some meet some women.

But then I I started to sort of just grow up and and think about some of the things I just talked to you about, about looking around and seeing... Really seeing how people... How their life is, and what I... How fortunate I was, and really listening more at church. And when you have kids, that's another inflection point. Like, how do I wanna raise these kids? Like, just because I have morals and I have principles and I have values, like, I got those someplace. They didn't just magically occur, but I should probably replicate some of my upbringing with them, even the parts that I may not liked because it made me who I am.

So we started going back to church, and I was older and wiser enough to listen a little bit more, and there's... It's hard to argue with what you learn there. Even if you don't believe that something happens after you die, even if you don't believe that all those miracles happen, just the philosophy that you should lead with love, you should turn the other cheek, you should help as many people as you can. Just that philosophy, it was revolutionary two thousand plus years ago, three thousand... Know? But if we can all do that, what a great place that we could be in. Who who would say no to that?

So I think that's helped me, and it's shaped who I am. And that's... I talked about earlier, I'm trying to be a better person every day. So make the better... The world a better place however I can, and be a better person every day. That's my bar. I can... If I can truly do that, love my neighbor all the time, never get angry at other people, wow. I'm just realizing I have a lot of work to do. But it's a great bar. Just strive for that every day. I know I'll never get there, but it doesn't mean I wanna not stop trying.

Ben BeeriIt's a part of the journey. Yes. The bar keeps moving, We keep moving. And, like, we never catch the bar. It's like we think we do sometimes. And when you think you catch the bar, that's when you're kind of starting over at a new level.

Jeff RoedersheimerYeah. Well, as soon as you get there, you realize that wasn't it wasn't it. I mean, party in the moment. Like your wedding example, you have a big party in the way, but now the marriage just started. Yeah. And a lot of the fun and joy and fulfillment's still there. It's coming. And you may not even realize it's happening at the time until you reflect back on it.

Ben BeeriWhat about you? What do you feel like you've learned from your journey with marriage and fatherhood over the years?

Jeff RoedersheimerWell, I learned, and I've told my kids this. We used to joke. I would say, love you, and they would say, I love you too. And I would be like, no, you have no... I love you way more. You gotta trust me on this one. You know, I I loved my parents, and they were the world. I mean, I depended on them for everything. I learned so much from them, but I also wanted out of the house. I wanted to move on. Grew up in a small town in Ohio. Got out of the university. I moved quickly out of that town. But being a parent, it's just a different type of love for your kids. And what I... Like, learning that, and you asked earlier what made me realize, you know, why help other people? Why... Like, the faith, that, all those questions.

Having kids helped reaffirm that because you you... Now there's somebody... There's a saying for boys that they need to look at their father differently because your father is the only person in your life that wants you absolutely to do better than them. But when you're a kid, you don't quite get that. You don't get it, unfortunately, until you're a father, And you... That's when it really hits. And then if you just analyze it, you just have to open up the aperture a little bit more and realize why does it have to stop at just my kid?

Why can't I be thinking about that for many people?

Ben BeeriAbsolutely. Now that's... That hits home for me because that's something where I haven't always had the best relationship with my father over the years, and it's like looking at it now, I know that he always wanted what was best for me, and he wanted to see my growth as a human being and as a man. And it's like, it's interesting. It's interesting to just look at it from a lens of he genuinely wanted me to get better. And, yeah, as time went on, it's like... It's... I'm grateful I'm at the place that I'm at now.

For me and my dad, we got to a place a few years ago where we didn't speak for a few years. And it's like we reconnected a little bit over a year ago, and it's... I'm grateful that we're at a place where we're rebuilding our relationship.

Jeff RoedersheimerYeah. It's... If I if I think about the success I've had in my careers, a lot of it has come out of the not so great moments of my childhood. A lot of it probably is because of my relationship being strained with my father, which is interesting. But like you, over the years, I've had a different perspective, and I've gotten probably closer. But my teens, twenties, strained relationship, for sure. But also made me who I am for

Ben Beerigood and bad. Do you feel like do you feel like that relationship put a chip on your shoulder?

Jeff RoedersheimerI don't know. A chip. One of the reasons I became a Casa was because I realized, like, I didn't have a perfect childhood. I didn't think it was at the time at all. But compared to the vast majority of other people, I did. So I think at the time, felt like may... Maybe I did have a chip on my shoulder, but when I reflected about what other people go through, I realized it's brothel. It's a brothel, really small chip. It reminds me of that story of the guy that is carrying a cross around, and he goes to God and he says, this cross is killing me. Why'd you give me such a big cross, God? And God says, well, you wanna change it out? He's like, I can change it out?

Yeah. Sure. Come on up. I got a whole warehouse of crosses. Go ahead. Put it down. He puts the cross down. He's like, oh my gosh. This is so great. Finally, get this cross off my back, I've been bearing my whole life. Feels feels awesome. He goes, well, go look around the warehouse, go find a cross. So he goes, big warehouse. He sees some really big crosses in his warehouse. He's there, like, for hours. God's like, have you found one yet? He's like, I'm still looking. He's looking. He's looking corners and everywhere. Finally, back in the corner, there's a little bit of light on it, behind this really big cross, there's this small little cross. He's like, I found my new cross to bear, God. And he goes over, and he gets to pick it up, and God goes, well, that's interesting. That's the cross you brought in.

You don't know sometimes what you have until you see what other people don't have or what they're dealing with.

Ben BeeriThat's an incredible story you told Jeff about cross and different people having different challenges in life. And when you really look around, sometimes the challenges that you think that you're going through are bigger than what other people have, but when you see what other people are going through, you really get to have a certain level of compassion for what they have going on. Right. What do you feel like is one of... Like, what do you feel like your cross was?

Jeff RoedersheimerWow. Well, definitely... I mean, I used to think it was a big one. It's definitely a lot smaller than I realized. I would say my cross is... Was, maybe, still is, to a lesser degree, letting people get to know who I am. So being more open about the real me. I I think that took me a long time as a... I was a very shy kid, and the shyness was because I I I didn't know if I wanted to let people in to see everything. I don't know exactly why that is. I think I just lacked confidence. So then as I got successes in my career, it built my confidence, and I was more willing to open myself up and truly get to know get to know people and let people get to know me. That's awesome. And did that process require you kind of

Ben Beerigetting to know yourself?

Jeff RoedersheimerYeah. I mean, I still am. I'm still... And you know what? Two, I think we all change so much. You get to know yourself, but you're always a work in process. So you're always kind of becoming someone else to a degree. I mean, not completely, obviously, but we're always learning and changing, and I think it's always good to reflect. I I think I have been reflecting for a couple decades now, probably since my thirties or early forties, so I think people should take more time to to live in the moment and reflect on who they are and who they're changing to become, and they'll know they'll change again.

Ben BeeriI love it. And one word I keep going back to that you've mentioned a few times during this podcast is the word relationships.

Jeff RoedersheimerMhmm. What does that mean to you? Well, I have a... Before I answer that question, I'll answer it, but it's I'm gonna go back to this thing I tell myself that we haven't talked about. We haven't used this word, but gratitude. So when I... I had to start thinking about the fact that, boy, I've been pretty fortunate. I've had a lot of good things happen, not because I made them happen. Some because I made them happen, but a lot because I didn't. But having more gratitude, and I have a gratitude... I say a little prayer, a gratitude prayer.

And I thank and I have gratitude to the earth and its abundance and how beautiful it is, and I I pray that everybody leaves it better than we found it. I have gratitude also for my mind, body, and soul. I'm very healthy. I've been able to do a lot of great things. I've had the vessel to do them in, so mind, body, and soul. I'm also grateful for challenges and opportunities. Not just opportunities, but challenges, because challenges make you who you are maybe more so, as we've talked about. But answering your question, I'm also grateful for the people in my life.

And I don't just say friends and family. I start with strangers. Everybody's a potential relationship. Everybody you meet. So when I say relationships, I mean every single person I interact with is a relationship and an opportunity to learn something new, tend to connect with somebody. I mean, again, I think that's why we're on this planet to a big degree is those relationships. So getting to know people, understanding what their journey's been, learning from them, and then experiencing life with them as well.

Ben BeeriI love that. I love that. And speaking of relationships, and speaking of connections, Jeff, where can our audience connect with you?

Jeff RoedersheimerWell, I'm working only part time, but if they're interested in reading my points of view on technology, AI, data, leadership. They can visit thirdwavearchitecture.com. Thirdwave Architecture Incorporated is my company. It's just me. I'm an independent adviser. It's architecture in the form of enterprise architecture, so think big technology systems, people and process and data,

Ben Beeribut that's where they can find me. Awesome. Awesome. I love that. And and one last thing, you talked about CASA and mentorship and the role you play to help mentor and influence the next generation. Can you tell us more about that?

Jeff RoedersheimerYeah. I would encourage people to look up CASA for sure. It's it's it's my... I mean, if I think about... I have a couple nonprofits, but that's the one for me, the number one. Not... No offense to people listening of other boards I'm on, but that's it. So court appointed special advocates. They're in most counties in The United States. Orange County here in California has a very... Well, I'm on the board. I think it's a pretty solid one. There's 3,000 kids in the foster care system in Orange County. We only have 600 advocates, and we have a big waiting list of kids that would love to have an advocate, a mentor assigned to them. So you can... No matter what county you're in, look up Quarter Point Special Advocates.

It's about forty hours of training. It's not too much time, and these kids benefit a lot from having someone in their corner.

Ben BeeriI love it. I love it. Well, ladies and gentlemen, Jeff Rottersheimer, what a great conversation. Thanks. Was it was nice. Good questions. You really made me think. There we go. I'm glad, I'm glad we're able to get you to, again, share with the world, help create abundance for everybody. Abundance in knowledge and experiences and consciousness and learning. Well, it's gonna take all of us to get there, so. 100%, 100%. Well, that was it for our episode of The Authentic Journey. I'm your host, Ben Beery. If there's anything that resonated with you guys today, please give us a like, give us a follow, share this episode with your friends. We definitely wanted to see all the great things that Jeff had to say, and we'll see you on the next episode of The Authentic Journey.